From: Patronsky, Mark
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 1:53 PM
To: Mautz, Kelly
Subject: FW: State Trails Policy Cmte - Suggestion
 


From: Huber, Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:42 AM
To: Patronsky, Mark
Cc: Piliouras, Elizabeth; Schmidt, Dan; Switzer, Aileen
Subject: RE: State Trails Policy Cmte - Suggestion

Here are a couple thoughts on Ken's request:
 

* Some of the planning that Ken is asking about has been done. We did work closely with the DNR in 1999 and 2000 as they developed the State Trails Network Plan. In this plan many corridors were identified that included state highways and active rail lines within the same corridors. That plan makes it clear that taking advantage of the rail opportunity for a trail is the first priority for these corridors, but in the absence of that, the highway itself could be considered. The plan states: " Appropriate "trail" improvements within a highway corridor could range from a separate path to a paved shoulder to no additional treatment at all on lightly traveled roads. The eventual recommended treatment would depend on traffic volume, width of the right-of-way, highway geometrics, cost, the number and type of anticipated users, and maintenance considerations." The vast majority of our system is comprised of 2-lane roadways where establishing free-standing trails is not feasible. That is a real limiting factor. Thus, bicyclists and occasional pedestrian traffic will be accommodated with wider paved shoulders in most cases.

* We are also very limited in our planning for trails that may be used by motorized users either exclusively or in a mixed situation. While 84.06 (11) clearly gives us the ability to include trails as a part of a highway improvement, the permitted trail types are limited to "a hiking trail, cross-country ski trail, bridle trail or bicycle trail under the management of a state agency, municipality....". Secondly, federal law prohibits the use of federal transportation funds (except Recreational Trails funding) for developing trails for motorized use, except snowmobiles when permitted by local ordinance.

* Building trails may also require condemnation, especially for our standard 66' rights-of-ways. Condemnation may be exercised only where "necessary" and only if land cannot be purchased at an agreed price. We have avoided using condemnation for trails in our highway corridors because it may be difficult to argue necessity, especially if the transportation value of the trail is questionable.

Given the above points, we are considering trails in our planning process whenever we convert 2-lane roadways to 4-lane roadways. Clearly we have the ability to designate ATV and snowmobile routes per state statutes for existing highways, but this will be done more on a case-by-case basis.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patronsky, Mark [mailto:Mark.Patronsky@legis.wisconsin.gov]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 10:44 AM
To: Huber, Thomas
Cc: Piliouras, Elizabeth; Schmidt, Dan
Subject: FW: State Trails Policy Cmte - Suggestion

Hi Tom---
 
Thanks for the call back this morning---I'm glad you'll be at the Merrill meeting of the study committee. 
 
Here is Beth's summary of Ken Carpenter's question.  If you can respond to Ken, and let Beth and me know how you respond, or just give me a call, or bring this up at the Merrill meeting, I would appreciate it.
 
Mark Patronsky


From: Piliouras, Elizabeth
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:17 PM
To: Patronsky, Mark; Schmidt, Dan; 'witrails@yahoo.com'
Subject: State Trails Policy Cmte - Suggestion

Hi Mark and Dan:

 

I spoke with Ken Carpenter last week who relayed a suggested topic for further investigation that Senator Breske wholeheartedly concurs on. 

 

In today's age of pre-planning everything, should we consider having DOT 'plan for recreational access' in their Right of Way when doing road projects?

 

At the meeting Roger mentioned that he gets complaints from clubs that trails end at a highway and there's no way to get across or continue along the right of way.  Ken's suggestion stems from this comment.

 

At least, Ken, I think I'm telling it right? 

 

Is this something that should be explored with DOT? 

 

Additionally regarding increased penalties... which is probably a natural possibility for the Committee to consider... I recently spoke with a constituent (an ATVer) who kind of illustrated it well when he compared it to deer shining.  What was a serious problem was significantly curtailed when law enforcement started impounding vehicles and taking away hunting rights.  I don't know if it would be helpful to know before and after numbers for comparison, but I'm just throwing it out there.  According to the constituent, his club would support increased penalties, such as confiscating ATVs that are riding off-trail.

 

And finally, just FYI, I haven't discussed/asked for additional information from anyone else.

 

Later,

Beth

Beth Piliouras
Senator Roger Breske
608-266-2509